I’ve been thinking about the thorny subject of tipping and why it diverges so much from countries such as France where tips are included to those like the US where up to 20% is expected.
And why should we pay tips on wine when there’s already a mark-up which is presumably designed to cover the cost of glassware and service?
Is it right to run a business where part of the staff’s remuneration is at the discretion of the customer and what they may or may not decide to leave?
Are you generally happy to pay the service charge on a bill or would you prefer to leave cash for your server.
Have you ever not left a tip due to poor service or do you think that’s the restaurant’s fault not that of their staff?
Love to have your thoughts.
PS I know that’s a rather weird photo as the wine doesn’t have a label which any self-respecting somm would be showing to the guest. But I downloaded it before I realised that 🙄
Here’s my American perspective. I worked as a waiter for years in the USA to support myself during university. The wage was really low and most of my income came from Tips. Tips were divided at the end of the day such that a small percentage went to the non waitstaff, Like kids who cleaned up the tables and wash dishes and so on. I personally thought it was great but, that’s just me - I loved the job and I was making way more than my friends working at the bookshop! And now if I have particularly good service I always tip big. And even if the service isn’t great I still tend to leave a decent tip because I know that’s how these people are making their money. Now that I live in the UK I’ve had to adapt to not leaving such exorbitant tips! But still if the service is particularly good or the food is particularly good I’ll definitely leave a tip but maybe only 10%! speaking of tipping in the UK, I still have no idea whether you’re supposed to tip hairdressers! And by how much!
As an Englishman who's moved to France, but also travelled a lot in the US, I infinitely prefer the French way. The waiting staff are professionals, and should be paid properly rather than at the whim of customers (and whether customers turn up in enough numbers that night or not, they are there and ready to work). Staff performance can then be managed by the management as necessary, as in any employment relationship.
Tips bring in a master/servant feel to the relationship, and a false niceness from the staff to the customer, because they're essentially performing for tips rather than simply doing their jobs. Everything becomes a bit over the top — "Look how brilliantly friendly I am being to you" — rather than service that is professional, courteous and knows the right times to be invisible.
And many of us who travel to the US will have had an experience when, with a mistake over tipping amounts, the server quickly turns on us with spite. I remember being invited to a party where a conference sponsor had taken over a venue and it was a free bar all night. I walked up to one of the bars, where they had bottles of beer lined up ready to hand out, and they handed me one. I said thanks and quickly got out of the way of the rest of the queue. But the bartender shouted at me with bare fury and hate writ across his face, "Hey, you! It's customary to tip for service in THIS country!!"
In France (outside of the main touristy venues) you get good professional service, and it's all very easy.
So, serving staff deserve proper pay, and customers deserve not to have to think about it all the time. Pay the bill at the end and keep the money out of the way of an enjoyable drink or meal. Let us focus on enjoying our evening rather than figuring out whether the owner is stiffing the staff in one way or another.
I think an archaic quasi feudal practise that has no place in a modern economy! Pay all your workers properly. That’s it. If a particularly generous customer wants to leave extra, fine, but guilt should not be part of the menu for everyone else.
So many issues. If you leave cash, who keeps it? What if more than one waiter serves your food? What about the KP or commis chef? Personally I think France gets it right with “service compris”. The American system is barking mad IMO. The worst of course are those who add a discretionary service charge but then invite you to leave a gratuity on top.
Some interesting points here. I live in mid-Italy, and tipping is absolutely NOT part of the culture. In fact, I have been chased by bar staff as I leave because I have left a Euro on the counter for them - in order for them to return it! On the other hand, hospitality staff are not very well paid, but don't expect tips to make up for it. It's a bit of a conundrum. Generally speaking, service isn't included in the final bill either, except in the higher-end restaurants. I have a bistro and the tip-leavers are invariably non Italians. And any tipos left go to the staff, not to me!
I like to leave my server a reasonable tip. The extra money might bring a smile to their face. They working much harder for a living than I am. How much depends on their service.
We Invented Tips, “To Induce Prompt Service” So We should Control it, The Hospitality industry Needs a Good Shake Up, many add an extra charge with some Fancy names, but these often Don’t get Fully passed on to the Staff doing the work, if the Service is Good I Tip the Server usually in Cash, if not then Why would I Want to pay Extra for something I did Not Get !
Maybe it was a blind tasting!!! Tipping is a thorny subject, when travelling I tend to go with local custom but in the USA the etiquette gets a bit out of whack. My experience and advice I was given in the USA is about 20% (differs from State to State) but that doesn't apply if you are drinking wine that's more expensive than house wine level. As you said the markup should cover most of the wine service so I tend to decide the tip on the wine based on the quality of the Sommelier's advice. I already know what I like so if the somm advises me of something different at the same or lesser price I give a bigger tip, if he / she tries to upsell me the wine needs to be pretty amazing to get the equivalent tip
I nearly always leave 20 per cent unless the food is terrible or the service particularly bad. That said many restaurants add a discretionary service charge which I find somewhat irritating especially if I don’t notice on the night and pay a tip as well!
We lived on Germany for many years and there like in Switzerland it is normal to round up. However unlike the UK waiters are trained and service is generally of a high standard. In the UK I have declined to give the discretionary gratuity when service has been poor but have always explained why. Much prefer the German or French system as you know the staff are being properly regarded
I always tip unless the service charge is already high. I can afford it so why shouldn’t I! At a bar too, if the bartender makes me a drink (rather than just pouring it). It’s always appreciated and they remember me for next time!
In most places in the UK if someone tips the money are divided by everyone in the company. The two problems are that many people keep the money as a secret without telling or when a waiter/somm actually give the money to the manager he/she will never know how they are going to be split or if you actually will receive any (it still happens quite a lot).
As in the UK service is included (even if the salary includes the service charge in plenty of places) I found myself tipping in the case of exceptional service especially when it comes down to food recommendation and more importantly wine pairing. I don't know if that's right or wrong cause I think everyone should get a bit of it from kitchen to KPs, from cellar to barbacks but there's something about service that is really hard to explain. I worked as a somm for quite a few years and the quality of service can impact so much and it requires so many skills that I think is still highly underpaid.
On my first trip to Japan I left a small tip at a restaurant in Tokyo only to find a member of staff running down the street after me and quite forcibly giving me my tip back. Never made that mistake again!
I don’t think it’s really a mystery. In countries where you don’t tip, service is included - and the waiting staff are normally paid well. In the US, the waiting staff are not paid well and rely on tips. In Switzerland, where I live, the practice is to round up, e.g. if the bill is CHF99 or CHF91 you pay CHF100.
I'd rather not pay a "service charge" at all. I don't pay one in shops to help fund the staff's wages. When I travel on public transport there's no whip-round for the drivers. When I go to the theatre the ticket price covers the actors' fees and theatre staff wages.
Restaurants should operate like any other business, and set their prices to cover ALL their costs and leave a profit to make the business viable.
Here’s my American perspective. I worked as a waiter for years in the USA to support myself during university. The wage was really low and most of my income came from Tips. Tips were divided at the end of the day such that a small percentage went to the non waitstaff, Like kids who cleaned up the tables and wash dishes and so on. I personally thought it was great but, that’s just me - I loved the job and I was making way more than my friends working at the bookshop! And now if I have particularly good service I always tip big. And even if the service isn’t great I still tend to leave a decent tip because I know that’s how these people are making their money. Now that I live in the UK I’ve had to adapt to not leaving such exorbitant tips! But still if the service is particularly good or the food is particularly good I’ll definitely leave a tip but maybe only 10%! speaking of tipping in the UK, I still have no idea whether you’re supposed to tip hairdressers! And by how much!
As an Englishman who's moved to France, but also travelled a lot in the US, I infinitely prefer the French way. The waiting staff are professionals, and should be paid properly rather than at the whim of customers (and whether customers turn up in enough numbers that night or not, they are there and ready to work). Staff performance can then be managed by the management as necessary, as in any employment relationship.
Tips bring in a master/servant feel to the relationship, and a false niceness from the staff to the customer, because they're essentially performing for tips rather than simply doing their jobs. Everything becomes a bit over the top — "Look how brilliantly friendly I am being to you" — rather than service that is professional, courteous and knows the right times to be invisible.
And many of us who travel to the US will have had an experience when, with a mistake over tipping amounts, the server quickly turns on us with spite. I remember being invited to a party where a conference sponsor had taken over a venue and it was a free bar all night. I walked up to one of the bars, where they had bottles of beer lined up ready to hand out, and they handed me one. I said thanks and quickly got out of the way of the rest of the queue. But the bartender shouted at me with bare fury and hate writ across his face, "Hey, you! It's customary to tip for service in THIS country!!"
In France (outside of the main touristy venues) you get good professional service, and it's all very easy.
So, serving staff deserve proper pay, and customers deserve not to have to think about it all the time. Pay the bill at the end and keep the money out of the way of an enjoyable drink or meal. Let us focus on enjoying our evening rather than figuring out whether the owner is stiffing the staff in one way or another.
I think an archaic quasi feudal practise that has no place in a modern economy! Pay all your workers properly. That’s it. If a particularly generous customer wants to leave extra, fine, but guilt should not be part of the menu for everyone else.
So many issues. If you leave cash, who keeps it? What if more than one waiter serves your food? What about the KP or commis chef? Personally I think France gets it right with “service compris”. The American system is barking mad IMO. The worst of course are those who add a discretionary service charge but then invite you to leave a gratuity on top.
Some interesting points here. I live in mid-Italy, and tipping is absolutely NOT part of the culture. In fact, I have been chased by bar staff as I leave because I have left a Euro on the counter for them - in order for them to return it! On the other hand, hospitality staff are not very well paid, but don't expect tips to make up for it. It's a bit of a conundrum. Generally speaking, service isn't included in the final bill either, except in the higher-end restaurants. I have a bistro and the tip-leavers are invariably non Italians. And any tipos left go to the staff, not to me!
I like to leave my server a reasonable tip. The extra money might bring a smile to their face. They working much harder for a living than I am. How much depends on their service.
We Invented Tips, “To Induce Prompt Service” So We should Control it, The Hospitality industry Needs a Good Shake Up, many add an extra charge with some Fancy names, but these often Don’t get Fully passed on to the Staff doing the work, if the Service is Good I Tip the Server usually in Cash, if not then Why would I Want to pay Extra for something I did Not Get !
Maybe it was a blind tasting!!! Tipping is a thorny subject, when travelling I tend to go with local custom but in the USA the etiquette gets a bit out of whack. My experience and advice I was given in the USA is about 20% (differs from State to State) but that doesn't apply if you are drinking wine that's more expensive than house wine level. As you said the markup should cover most of the wine service so I tend to decide the tip on the wine based on the quality of the Sommelier's advice. I already know what I like so if the somm advises me of something different at the same or lesser price I give a bigger tip, if he / she tries to upsell me the wine needs to be pretty amazing to get the equivalent tip
Hi all
I nearly always leave 20 per cent unless the food is terrible or the service particularly bad. That said many restaurants add a discretionary service charge which I find somewhat irritating especially if I don’t notice on the night and pay a tip as well!
All the best
We lived on Germany for many years and there like in Switzerland it is normal to round up. However unlike the UK waiters are trained and service is generally of a high standard. In the UK I have declined to give the discretionary gratuity when service has been poor but have always explained why. Much prefer the German or French system as you know the staff are being properly regarded
I always tip unless the service charge is already high. I can afford it so why shouldn’t I! At a bar too, if the bartender makes me a drink (rather than just pouring it). It’s always appreciated and they remember me for next time!
In most places in the UK if someone tips the money are divided by everyone in the company. The two problems are that many people keep the money as a secret without telling or when a waiter/somm actually give the money to the manager he/she will never know how they are going to be split or if you actually will receive any (it still happens quite a lot).
As in the UK service is included (even if the salary includes the service charge in plenty of places) I found myself tipping in the case of exceptional service especially when it comes down to food recommendation and more importantly wine pairing. I don't know if that's right or wrong cause I think everyone should get a bit of it from kitchen to KPs, from cellar to barbacks but there's something about service that is really hard to explain. I worked as a somm for quite a few years and the quality of service can impact so much and it requires so many skills that I think is still highly underpaid.
Really curious to know your thoughts.
On my first trip to Japan I left a small tip at a restaurant in Tokyo only to find a member of staff running down the street after me and quite forcibly giving me my tip back. Never made that mistake again!
I don’t think it’s really a mystery. In countries where you don’t tip, service is included - and the waiting staff are normally paid well. In the US, the waiting staff are not paid well and rely on tips. In Switzerland, where I live, the practice is to round up, e.g. if the bill is CHF99 or CHF91 you pay CHF100.
I'd rather not pay a "service charge" at all. I don't pay one in shops to help fund the staff's wages. When I travel on public transport there's no whip-round for the drivers. When I go to the theatre the ticket price covers the actors' fees and theatre staff wages.
Restaurants should operate like any other business, and set their prices to cover ALL their costs and leave a profit to make the business viable.